http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#179b8a0a-3f2c-4425-9b45-34d03776cfa0 Not for nuthin rscott, but, if everyone took that position all the planes in your shop would still be made from wood, your chisels would still be made in a blacksmith's shop, and your tuning pegs would still be friction fit. There is no reason one can't or shouldn't experiment with and use new materials. Of course one must expect a measure of failure when experimenting. Glen Campbell's concrete guitar is an excellent example. Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:54:37 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#179b8a0a-3f2c-4425-9b45-34d03776cfa0 ALLAH God of all 2008-12-03T18:54:37Z http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#75f72139-d80f-43db-87d7-6d1e7e106c00 "Take these broken wings and learn to fly." - The Beatles lol Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:46:34 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#75f72139-d80f-43db-87d7-6d1e7e106c00 ♪James 2008-08-25T19:46:34Z http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#cf020aea-9e10-4d88-aa52-840815b1406d You my friend are spending a lot of time and money to get to what we already know ,I worked as a luthier in great pro shops and the result of our findings are In the end , properly seasoned woods are superior and only get better with age.Who in there right mind would ever settle for less? Magic formula??? $$$+real wood =Tone that's it ! No snot ,bugger or glue will ever come close,sorry my friend and I mean that, We spent years and came up with mediocrocy at 3times the cost. Sat, 23 Aug 2008 04:53:58 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#cf020aea-9e10-4d88-aa52-840815b1406d rscott 2008-08-23T04:53:58Z http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#4b04b7e9-d6d6-45d3-bab8-c3a3aec80e86 Hmm I wonder if an epoxy chemist could take you further yet still. I know that epoxies can be formulated to have various degrees of flex ( rubberiness). I had a formulation made that would remain elastic and flexible down to 70 Deg below Zero F. It took the Chemist all of two minutes to think of how to do it and another 5 minutes produce the epoxy I wanted. It amounted to a mere matter of mixing the correct ingredients. He didn't engineer an tailored polymer he just grabbed some cans and jars off his shelves mixed 'em and handed me two jars to mix in equal parts to get the epoxy. Seems to me that you might be able to get an epoxy that would have more hardness than whatever you are using off the shelf. West Systems and others make epoxies that must remain resilient at a variety of temperatures and under rather strenuous and repeated flexural and torsional loading. This is because they sell a product that is intended to be used in boat and airplane construction. The wings of a plane and the hull of a boat must bend a great deal and return unharmed. This modulus of elasticity and hysterisis recovery is critical to structural integrity. A guitar doesn't need that and might benefit substantially from a different formulation. As to the visit. Thanks but I don't get to SF too often. I think it's been once in 55 years. Thu, 15 May 2008 13:22:41 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#4b04b7e9-d6d6-45d3-bab8-c3a3aec80e86 ALLAH God of all 2008-05-15T13:22:41Z http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#5edcbe31-413d-4340-b72d-45a048904f6e So the top really is that thin (1mm). You are right about the epoxy not having great resonance. The trick is to use as little as possible. We also use several layers of fabric with low epoxy content including uni-directional and bi-directional weaves. The uni-directional replicates wood (which is uni-directional as well) to achieve the right balance of stiffness, thinness, and weight. Bracing is also key. Carbon naturally has great tonal clarity and string separation. The uni-body, hollow neck and head does wonders for sustain. Better to hear it in person- the door is always open at our shop in SF- just drop me a line. joe(at) blackbirdguitar(dot)com Thu, 15 May 2008 02:49:28 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#5edcbe31-413d-4340-b72d-45a048904f6e joe 2008-05-15T02:49:28Z http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#a75855f0-d1f3-4b65-b4c1-704c37522e9b You make the top 0.039" thick~? That's thin. I listened to the clips and wondered how you got any sustain & tonal clarity. I have had friends who tried carbon fiber and they stumbled over the epoxy. It's not terribly resonant stuff. Even tried a pre-preg and baked it on a clamshell. Same problem. How much tweaking of the epoxy did you go through to get the resonance you needed? Mon, 05 May 2008 23:35:19 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#a75855f0-d1f3-4b65-b4c1-704c37522e9b ALLAH God of all 2008-05-05T23:35:19Z http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#0e24caae-ec98-4f41-81a2-37b4f605501b looking forward to hearing more about these guitars....wish i had one..lol Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:17:18 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#0e24caae-ec98-4f41-81a2-37b4f605501b KaHaKu 2008-04-29T18:17:18Z http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#6774b7c4-bb14-4789-9ce1-5695059b5b90 Hi, I make unusual hollow neck carbon guitars. We now have both steel-sting and nylon string models. For us carbon fiber is a means rather than an end which allows us to design the lightest and therefore most resonant small-body guitars in the world. The goal was to make pleasing acoustics that are for easy to travel with. I expect heated feedback on account of the unconventional design but I assure you, the hollow neck, a 1mm top, body extension with off-center soundhole is how we get that big sound out of a small body. I personally hand assemble and set-up each and every one. We are based in San Francisco, drop me a line and you are welcome to stop by. www.blackbirdguitar.com Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:15:43 GMT http://acousticguitarforum.tribe.net/thread/f221752b-5fa4-4cd5-83d4-438b8b68b134#6774b7c4-bb14-4789-9ce1-5695059b5b90 joe 2008-04-28T23:15:43Z